are arguing. >> who said shut down pbs? >> that's been the debate for a while. >> they raise money privately. >> what's the budget there? >> you know what? not a relevant question. what is the role of government? the role of government should be limited to certain things. >> i'm just talking about big bird. i think that the country probably will do fine funding big bird for another few years. >> that's not the point. >> i think we'll be fine. >> you know we add another $400 million there, $400 million here. it's real money, bob. >> what do we have, a $4 trillion budget? >> you would blow $400 million because you like big bird? >> what benefit are we getting from having something like a national public radio? what benefit do we get out of that? i think we get benefits out of that. if you argue, why should we go to the moon? >> individuals will give money to them. that's how we do most organizations in this country. >> as you can see, we agree. up next, we're coming right back with the closing countdown. >> critics saying som